... ABC, CBS, and NBC and radio stations can exist for free? Even your newspaper is based more on a advertising model than a subscription model. The bottom line is this: The advertising model does work. That it hasn't worked on the internet is proof that amatuers are trying to sell ads to professionals, and the pros know it. What should content sites do? Do what other media does to make money, it's a proven model. And this applies to all content sites, not just /. * Larger ads in conjunction with content, full screen won't work. The media real estate devoted to advertising on /. is miniscule, it's barely a blip. It's like a 1 second TV ad. I'm not saying /. should go all Vogue, with nothing but ads, but they can (and apparently are about to) increase the amount of space devoted to ads. * No ads that annoy the user. That means, no pop-ups, no pop-unders, no browser-crashing Java crap, no full screen ads, and stop the friggin' blinking "you've won" and "click this drop down menu" ads. NBC doesn't take ads that mislead the viewer, why should a web site? Have some advertising standards. * Get real sales reps in. Sales reps with experience really selling ad inventory, not technology. They should know how to sell their product, their reader's time and attention. Web sites have the most highly targetable audience, but that information is wasted because current internet sales reps are more concerned about the "hows" and not the "whos" and "whys". I am convinced, and phantom, you haven't proven otherwise, that proper advertising sales on the internet can be successful. -sk